The anti-vacc movement; an Australian perspective.
Basically all medications and drugs and vaccines are supposed to go through a double blind placebo study where one group is given the treatment and another group is given a placebo or like a sugar pill and in over 200 years of vaccine history, this has never been done for any vaccine. So anything we know or think we know about vaccinations is purely guess work.
Meryl Dorey, The Australian Vaccination Network, 2006.
With recent talk about how the anti-vaccine crowd have effected rates of vaccination in the UK and the States, I thought it might be interesting to look closer to home to see how Australia stacks up.
This week Medicare, Australia’s government run health body released figures from the Australian Childhood Immunisation Register detailing the rates of immunisation in this country.
The latest figures are from December 2008. On the face of it, it seems we are doing pretty well. For kids aged up to 15 months, the national average for immunisation is 91% with the lowest levels being 89.9% for Western Australia. The national average falls to 88.4 % in the up to 5 years of age group with the lowest compliance of 85.5% in South Australia. When you consider that approximately 90% vaccination is needed to obtain herd immunity, but this depends on the vaccine and the disease, these figures are encouraging.
Rob Menzies, from the National Centre for Immunisation Research and Surveillance, said low vaccination rates were often more prevalent where well-educated parents did their own research and believed the myths that vaccines did more harm than good. This was reflected in figures for Sydney’s exclusive Eastern Suburbs, including the harbour view, well-to-do suburbs of Double Bay and Vaucluse, which were ranked the worst, with only 80 per cent of children immunised. This was followed closely by the areas of Lismore, Alstonville and Byron Bay, areas known for “alternative lifestyles” so these figures are not overly surprising.
There has been much discussion and speculation about why the wealthy suburbs are less likely to get their kids vaccinated. One journalist described the parents as, “Selfish dummy mummies need consciences pricked”. Adele Horin, reporting in the Sydney Morning Herald explained; “These are women who spend too many hours on wacky internet health sites and become convinced immunisation is a giant conspiracy”. She further described them as “The educated mother who thinks she knows better than the overwhelming majority of the world’s scientists and doctors…” These statements are supported by Arthur Allen, author of the book Vaccine, A History of Immunisation. He observed that “living in a place with a high percentage of PhDs is a risk factor for whooping cough”.
Scathing stuff indeed. But in a case of backward logic the anti-vaccers have actually claimed this for themselves loudly proclaiming, “parents continue to be accused of being ignorant, uncaring and stupid for refusing vaccines which the medical community claim will keep their children healthy when the truth is older, highly educated parents form the basis of the [sic] anti-immunisation lobby’.
Not something to be proud of I would have thought. However, one wonders if these are the parents glued to morning television when the likes of Meryl Dorey from the Australian Vaccination Network (AVN) can regularly be seen, spouting her misinformed anti-vacc. nonsense. She is like a watered down version of Jenny McCarthy, without all the cash and the hilarious boyfriend.
The innocuously titled AVN, fronted by the screeching Meryl Dory, go by the catch phrase, “love them, protect them, never inject them”. Meryl is regularly given a platform on morning television shows in Australia, such as Mornings with Kerri-Anne. In defence of Kerri-Anne, they usually have a representative from the sensible side, in this case Dr Penny Adams. However just like the overseas breeds, Meryl is not shy about exposing her ingnorance to a national audience.
As a demonstration of how little the AVN understand about science and medicine, I will use an article written by them called “10 reasons why parents choose not to vaccinate”.
Reason 1: Vaccines have never been tested.
A true indication of how little AVN know about how the drug development process works. I won’t bore you with the details of this process today, but I will tell you it takes millions of dollars, around 10 years and at least 4 phases of testing, which continues even after the drug is released.
Evidence that this process works can be found in the case of a vaccine for the rotavirus called Rotashield which was released in the US in August 1988. In pre-licensure trials, the vaccine appeared to be safe, but in post-licensure surveillance it was associated with an increased risk of intussusception (a rare form of bowel obstruction occurring in infants). As soon as this problem was discovered, the vaccine was withdrawn from the market. Rotashield® was never released in Australia, and each new rotavirus vaccine has undergone testing in around 70,000 young children to rule out a risk of bowel obstruction.
Reason 2: Vaccines contain toxic additives and heavy metals
Here they are of course scaremongering with thimerosol, a mercury-based preservative that has been used in very small amounts in some vaccines since the 1930s to prevent bacterial and fungal contamination. There is no evidence that thiomersal in vaccines has caused any health problems, except perhaps minor reactions, such as redness at the injection site. THimerosol was removed from childhood vaccines as a precaution in 2000. Some vaccines, such as pneumococcal vaccines, MMR and other live attenuated viral vaccines, never contained thiomersal. Whilst there are certain vaccines for adults that stil contain thimerosol, the levels are extrememly low. Much lower than the level of exposure we get to mercury in our daily lives.
I don’t have time to discuss all their claims, except to day that they are full of accusations and conspiracies we have come to expect from such ignorant people, such as pharmaceutical companies have paid for all the vaccine studies to date, and this outrageous statement;
“Some childhood illnesses have beneficial aspects and therefore prevention may not necessarily be in the interests of the child”
You really think so Meryl Dorey? Why don’t we use one example of a childhood illness, whooping cough, (which can be vaccinated against) and look at whether it’s in the interest of the child to contract it. I chose whooping cough since Australia is currently experiencing an epidemic.
According to some reports, more than 13,000 cases were diagnosed across Australia – a 15 year high. In October 2008, there were more than 40 confirmed cases in the Bega Valley region, most were in school aged children, from the same school and the health service said that most of the cases were in children who have not been immunised.
Whooping cough is caused by the bacterium Bordetella pertussis. Babies are vaccinated against pertussis at 2 months, then 4 months, 6 months and 4 years. Whooping cough is particularly serious in young children, where one in every 200 babies who contract the infection will die. Some can even crack ribs through violent coughing attacks. A recent report about the current epidemic cited the story of a 14 week old girl, who has had whooping cough since she was two weeks old. Her terrified mother explained how she had turned blue several times, whilst gasping for air following long coughing fits.
The ‘whoop’ (which is not always obvious) is due to a deep breath at the end of a bout of coughing. Vomiting after coughing is common. Severe complications which occur almost exclusively in unvaccinated people include seizures and pneumonia. In babies under 6 months of age the symptoms can be severe or life threatening and include;
• Haemorrhage (bleeding)
• Apnoea (stopping breathing for long periods of time)
• Pneumonia
• Inflammation of the brain
• Convulsions and coma
• Permanent brain damage
• Death.
Whooping cough is not a disease you want to mess with. According to health officials, the recent Australian epidemic of whooping cough is likely a result of a reduction in vaccination. North Coast Area Health Service director of public health, Paul Corben said, “Communities with low vaccination rates have had more than eight times the rate of disease seen in those areas with the highest vaccination rates”.
Although the AVN are a relatively small organisation they are well organised and active, therefore they can do significant damage.
Australian listeners may remember the case of parents who fled hospital and the authorities with their new born in August 2008, to avoid having to have him vaccinated for hepatitis B. The sad thing is the mother has hepatitis B herself. Although it is not compulsory to be vaccinated in Australia, it is health department policy that children born of hepatitis B positive mothers are offered immunoglobulin for the child within 12 hours of birth and four doses of the vaccine over six months. In a tragic tale of ignorance, the mother told reporters that the couple believed aluminium in the vaccine could cause him more damage than the child contracting hepatitis B. And of course the father is a member of the Australian Vaccination Network, by which the couple are now touted as heroes.
Australia also has the usual suspects, the chiropractors who don’t proclaim it from the rooftops but upon questioning will tell you not to vaccinate. They will also follow the MMR-autism line. I had one tell me this at a recent Mothers, Babies, and pregnancy expo. And of course we can’t forget the despicable homeopaths who will also tell you on the sly that you can use homeopathy to vaccinate your kids. (BTW, there is no such thing as a homeopathic vaccine or a process known as homeopathic vaccination. It is called homeopathic immunisation, sometimes known as homeoprophylaxis, according to the irresponsible website homeopathyplus.com.au).
For more information about the myths and realities of vaccinations, see the Australian government’s publication “Vaccination; myths and realities, responding to arguments against immunisation” (see below). This is a thoroughly researched and easy to read resource which addresses fact and fiction about vaccination. Also useful even if you are not in Australia and particularly good for passing on to anyone you know who might have some dodgy ideas about the merits of vaccination.
References and further reading:
Immunisation, myths and realites. Responding to arguments against immunisation. A guide for practitioners. Australian Government Department of Health Ageing. 4th edition.
The MMR Decison Aid from the National Centre for Immunisation Research and Surveillance, Australia.
Fact sheet – A guide to homeopathic vaccination.
Only listen to these homeopathy podcasts if you are sitting down. The stupid, it burns.
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Thanks for the article Scepdoll. I suppose because the AVN is a network and not an incorporated body they can get away with misleading the public as to what their real intent is. Always sends up red flags to me when an organization names itself so as to obscure its nature, rather like the anti-abortion lobby.
Sean the Blogonaut
February 28, 2009 at 10:54 am
[...] This is a very sad example of the damage done by the likes of The Australian Vaccination Network. I blogged about this recently and reported on it for The Skeptic Zone podcast number [...]
» Death of a 4 week old girl from whooping cough
March 11, 2009 at 1:50 pm
This is very distressing stuff. The thought of kids suffering whooping cough really upsets me – especially when it’s avoidable – a much more realistic risk than those claimed by the anti-vaxers.
I’ll treat this in the next Around the Traps.
Years ago I wrote an article about a little old nurse in New England who received occasional death threats from AVN members…
skepbitch
March 16, 2009 at 1:18 pm
When are the AVN going to register as a religion?
Michael Gray
March 19, 2009 at 4:49 am
Wow, that’s sad. I thought I was safe from this stuff in Melbourne, but I guess not. Better make sure I have my vaccines up to date.
Na
April 2, 2009 at 8:01 am
quote from a New Jersy parents united to defend their right to decide over their children’s treatments.
“Middleton said the vaccination mandates are not about children’s health.
“I believe the government and big pharmacies are in bed together,” Middleton said, adding that if the state cared about children’s health it would demand “green vaccines” that do not contain neurotoxins and carcinogens such as thimerosal, formaldehyde, mercury and aluminum.
Assemblywoman Charlotte Vandervalk (R District-39), the primary sponsor of the conscientious objection bill, said federal law exempts vaccine manufacturers from liability. She said the federal government compensates those parents who can establish a firm timeline between a vaccination and a resulting injury or death and has paid $910 million toward vaccination-damaged children. She said as of Oct. 1, the federal government had 988 vaccination-related deaths on file. Since it seems that he is very welcome in Tanzania, he may disregard your beaurocratic hypocritical “ethics” which have nothing to do with the benefit of terminally ill people there at all. Sitting, in the comfort of your office or home and spread libelous small det
“What about the products causing the deaths”
Now it is dubious that vaccinations have abated smallpox and the rest of the diseases, since it is a known fact amongs biologists and MD’s who have eyes, to observe that the strong decline of these diseases happened before vaccinations were introduced!
This particular lie that the decline is due to vaccinations gave the pharmaceuticals the license to damage the health of already billions babies (today adults) all over the world.. As Autism is the disease of the ninties onwards. But what with allergies, respiratory and gastric problems, ticks, ear infections, you name it that is so spread in modern times.
For some reason I am certain that the Big-Farma CE’s see that their offspring is not vaccinated.
Just google vaccination scandals and name: allergies, Adhd, ear infection, cot death, convulsions, respiratory diseases, gastitis, crohne, and autism. You will come along some scientific proven data that will drive you forever away from this fraudulent guised as beneficial medicine.
The fact is the pharmaceuticals are worse than the warmongers selling dangerous arms and ammunition. Because you know about these being dangerous, what you do not know is that these vaccinations can make a child medically dependent for life! that means that even if these vaccines are given free they will serve the pharmaceuticals!
tony
April 15, 2009 at 3:02 pm
[...] of my other blog will recall I recently did a Dr Rachie Reports on the anti-vax movement in Australia and used the [...]
» Whooping cough case reported at Macquarie University
April 24, 2009 at 11:11 am
Ouch! Place a warning before opening with such strong stupid. I think I just singed off my eyebrows.
Clinical Trials.gov
Found 2641 studies with search of: vaccine
The stats that “educated mothers” are more likeley to succumb to anti-vaxxers is also depressing.
zayzayem
April 26, 2009 at 11:31 am
[...] Australia, this movement is taking root as well. Calling the alarm to this, a TV program in Oz called "Sunday Night" aired an excellent [...]
The Australian antivax movement takes its toll | Bad Astronomy | Discover Magazine
April 26, 2009 at 5:22 pm
[...] post here at “Skeptic Zoners” talks about the Australian “Anti-vacc” [...]
Dan’s Demented Ramblings » Blog Archive » The Rise Of The Anti-vacc Movement, Are We Still The Clever Country??
April 26, 2009 at 11:47 pm
[...] Australia, this movement is taking root as well. Calling the alarm to this, a TV program in Oz called “Sunday Night” aired an excellent [...]
Will an Australian infant’s death finally force antivaxxer introspection? - settingsun’s Diary - RedState
April 27, 2009 at 12:23 pm
why do you find it necessary to call non-vaccinators ignorant, irresponsible etc?
are you threatened by them?
carmel reid
April 29, 2009 at 12:28 pm
If you mean because they might contribute to the death of immuno-compromised people or children, then yes I am threatened by them. In fact, I want to be as far away from them as possible in this case.
scepdoll
April 29, 2009 at 1:16 pm
SCEPDOL-An immunised child carries more contagious diseases than an unimunised child.. my child got chikenpox from an IMMUNISED child.. he only got it 4 a week and was very mild.. my son also got whooping cough from an IMMUNISED child, he got it for almost three months but was alot less severe than that of the immunised child. secondly, formaldahyde (a preservative in immunisations) is used to preserve dead bodies, it is extremeley dangerous at any level to living tissue, this is also supported by the WORLD HEALTH ORGANISATION.. i know of 2 children who recieved the MMR vaccine and were consequently diagnosed with autism..
Fact is the concept of vaccines is good however the execution of it is far from good.. your pumping a poor child with chemicals n diseases before their tiny bodies are equipt to handle it..
na
April 30, 2009 at 3:21 am
na
Strongly suggest that you only use Homoeopathic medicine. That will leave more real medicine for the rest of us.
Richard Saunders
April 30, 2009 at 3:39 am
I realise that you think your child caught a disease from an Immunised child. Firstly. How do you know your child caught it specifically of that child. Secondly. Your kid probably wouldn’t have caught it if he was ALSO immunised.
Did you know that water is used in nuclear reactors OMFG WATER IS A COOLANT STOP DRINKING WATER! Just because something is bad in some circumstances doesn’t mean it is always bad.
In regards to your assertion that MMR causes autism. Bleh. Do not confuse correlation with causation. The fact of the matter is, most children who are diagnosed with autism get their shots around the same time because This is the age autism becomes obvious AND this is the age that they receive their immunisations.
youngaustralianskeptics
April 30, 2009 at 3:44 am
Tony,
Your evidence-free assertions come across as a tad paranoid and don’t hold any water in the face of the actual science which shows that vaccines *are* adequately safe, given the benefits they provide. The vaccination schedule is designed to ensure that children are given protection from illness as soon as is possible. Also, I think the “green vaccine” argument is misleading at best. The chemicals that are listed with the intent to scare parents into submission have been shown to either no longer be used in most vaccines or are/were never used in amounts approaching anywhere near a threat to children, even when combined to treat multiple diseases in one go.
“For some reason I am certain [certain?] that the Big-Farma (sic) CE’s (sic) see that their offspring is (sic) not vaccinated.” I very much doubt this, despite your certainty. Do doctors vaccinate their children, or are you certain that they also do not? I’m fairly sure they do.
Joel
April 30, 2009 at 4:50 am
youngaustralianskeptics: my son goes to family daycare with 4 other children, the IMMUNISED child was sick and my child cought both sicknesses afterwards.. also y are “IMMUNISATIONS” now called “VACCINES”, because even if you have the injection you are not immune to the certain disease..
y does a child who is just born in need of a hep b shot? are they going to catch hep b sexually? is there going to be blood to blood contact with a hep b pt? the reason hep b is around is for babies whos parents have hep b, however instead of limiting it to that they have decited to just give it to ALL babies!!
JOEL: i have been to various drs whom ive discussed vaccination with and in turn have told me ur right theres no need and my kids arnt vaccinated either.. they have said the only real vaccine that should be given is the whooping cough one but that is the one which apparantly causes sids.. did you know that in australia you cant sue if your child has an adverse reaction to a vaccine? y? did you know in america it is very prevelant that ppl sue due to adverse reactions and even death..
and im sorry youngaustralianskeptics, how could a perfectly healthy happy child just wake up one day and be so blank? and be a totally different person that is autism???
Richard saunders: dont worry, u will need all the medicine you can get as your children in the future will be more succeptable to sickness than mine..
na
April 30, 2009 at 7:38 am
to
na
April 30, 2009 at 7:38 am
you ask “how could a perfectly healthy happy child just wake up one day and be so blank? and be a totally different person that is autism???” THAT IS WHAT AUTISM IS! that is one of the characteristics of this devastating illness that is autism.
you also say “the whooping cough one but that is the one which apparantly causes sids.. ” where is your proof? the Auatralian SIDS website says this is completely untrue. if you are going to make braod sweeping statements you need to have the proof to back them up.
I should add that my son contracted whooping cough at 5 weeks of age, and he is doing pretty well now, so I obviously feel very strongly about vaccinbations. However my nephew has autism and not one person in my family has rushed to blame vaccinations, we just look to the future to support him with his on going needs. Likewie, where my son got whooping cough from doens’t matter, the fact is if he was old enough to be vaccinated and had have caught whooping cough, it would have been to a much lesser degree and we might not have been warned to expect the worse as nurses took him away from us.
Jessica Murray
April 30, 2009 at 10:50 pm
So so sad and unfortunate we are all so uninformed and uneducated on our OWN wellbeing, and thus our own babies. A shame we cannot all come together and put all this passion, energy and emotion everyone is clearly feeling into a solution to find out what is REALLY going on here… Why the heck don’t we know?? Why are we all arguing?? Don’t you see, you are ALL fighting the same cause – safety of your children!
na – Hat off to you for opening up the can of worms above (and trying to defend it) – it seems there is a lot of pain and grief here (and rightly so, tis terrible)which would make it very difficult to look at this objectively, and trying to bring about something different to what is mainstream “knowledge” to many will always bring ridicule.
The government / scientific LABS / pharmaceutical co’s / mainstream medicine (most not all) KNOW more than us – hmmm *dodgey* – and what’s really going on here… they’re NOT suffering. They’re all CASHED up and in bed together!!
whats really going on here?
May 3, 2009 at 12:06 pm
one other thing to think about – not saying its TRUE specifically and do not wish to offend anyone but…
There is a lot of faith in the government / scientific – medicine industry above with reference to the “drug development process” and promoting printed government information (who might be funded by pharmecautical co’s by the way – if you Google it, there’s interesting information out there on that too, especially Baxters…) – I wish I had that much faith in a bunch of beaurocrats who “say” they’re doing something, but really do something else… maybe I’m still on the fence, maybe you think I’m nuts, but hey, I WANT to be educated with whats REALLY going on here… not sure if the government is a source of information to trust.
whats really going on here?
May 3, 2009 at 12:21 pm
@what’s going on here?
I am a scientist, I don’t know what you mean by “CASHED up and in bed together”. We have just been told we don’t have jobs after December because we didn’t get any government funding this year. Can you point me in the right direction please? I need to pay my rent. Cheers.
By the way, there is no evidence for this government conspiracy theory to which you refer. If you want to find out more about the drug development process, go to pubmed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ where many scientific articles are published.
scepdoll
May 3, 2009 at 1:06 pm
There is so much information out there, if you REALLY wanted to know whats REALLY going on you wouldn’t waste your time trying to mock my rants and go and read about it and find it out for yourself. I’m not saying all scientists are fraudulent, you clearly are trying to help and make a difference for the good. Just proposing here people give an option to an OPEN view instead of saying NO without making an informed decision and LOOKING into it themselves.
If you could help explain any of these that would be great, it sure sounds like they’re up to no good – at the cost of human lives. Ask them for your rent money, they all got PLENTY:
“Fake Scientific / Medical journals”
http://www.gardasilhpv.com/2009/05/coming-soonphony-hpv-journals-from.html
whats going on here?
May 4, 2009 at 1:15 am
Example of Pharma & Govt in cahoots – BAYER http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2pD2HI-U5c
– this was quietly aired on tv in US .Funny why didnt WE see it?? Why didnt channel 7 cover this??
whats going on here?
May 4, 2009 at 1:15 am
Evidence of pharmo labs, govt corruption – Baxter & avian flu VACCINE
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Still-Think-They-re-Not-Tr-by-Mr-M-090305-202.html
whats going on here?
May 4, 2009 at 1:18 am
– Baxter ADMITTED to this and it was leaked by internal employee. Media coverups and articles have since been released and original evidence is now difficult to find.
Evidence (on national TV last nite ch 7)- GOVERNMENT handing out funding to doctors to VACCINATE. If that’s not a form of bribing corruption what is? If we did that in business we’d be in JAIL.
Point to note here, all evidence is swept under the carpet very rapidly as this is a BILLION dollar industry that does NOT want to be caught out. I am NOT a conspiracy theorist, just another ‘joe blog – jane doe’ like you, who wanted to make informed decisions. I am NOT liking what Im finding out and wish I didnt to be honest.
whats going on here?
May 4, 2009 at 1:19 am
@From whats going on here?
I do not have time to respond in detail to your conspiracy theories and accusations. I am trying to solve the problems of heart disease and other age-related disorders.
There is corruption in every industry – there will always be because people are greedy. That does not mean we dismiss the entire industry, because of one bad apple. I will check your links when I get home to see exactly what you have dug up.
I’m not sure if you really understand the scientific method and how vaccines are developed, but it seems to me that no matter what information I present to you, you will tell me it is biased, tarnished or has the sticky fingers of “Big Pharma” all over it.
In the interests of time, I will address you accusations of bribery ala doctors get paid. In this case, you might like to open your eyes to the fact that anti-vaxers and conscientious objectors also get paid as part of this scheme.
The exemption clause is here:
http://www.familyassist.gov.au/internet/fao/fao1.nsf/content/payments-mia-exemptions.htm
But briefly,
a recognised immunisation provider (e.g. your doctor) signs a letter or form saying that:
• they have told you about the benefits and risks of immunising your child and you have a conscientious objection to immunising your child (your provider should complete a Health Insurance Commission Immu-12 form).
Do you not think it might appear as dishonest that they never seem to mention this when throwing around accusations of bribery? If they get paid to not vaccinate, isn’t this also bribery? They are on the take of the government too.
scepdoll
May 4, 2009 at 4:05 am
Fair enough – thanks for the information.
Not making accusations nor am i trying to, am merely trying to share information to others and how turning a blind eye to what the government / media DONT tell us could be detrimental, especially with vaccines.
whats going on here?
May 4, 2009 at 7:27 am
Ummm…
@what’s going on here?
What is wrong with goevrnment (not pharmaco) providing assistance to doctors who do their job right?
I could’ve sworn that was the basis of a publicly funded health system. Would you prefer the government not give doctors money?
It’s like saying the government also bribes teachers to give children textbooks (which I’m sure book publishers luuuurve).
zayzayem
May 5, 2009 at 5:02 am
Put up your hand if you would like to know why the most educated wealthy parts of our community have the least vaccination rates?
It is because, we are the people who have the MOST confidence in our ability to critique all the information and when we do, we obviously choose not to vaccinate…
Please answer this. Why is autism, asthma, eczma, diabetis and autoimmun diseases at levels we have never seen before?
Please answer this? A child who could once talk, walk and look you in the eye, no longer does after a Jab, then what else could it be? You say that is part of the symptoms, since when? Regressive autsim has NEVER, EVER been at such levels EVER BEFORE…
Please answer this, why did Bailey and Polling win a court case proving that the MMR triggered their autism?
Please answer this, why is it that the FDA proclaim that the safety limit for aluminium is 25mcg daily, but yet we inject over 500mcg in one day? Please explain why we have WARNING labels on IV antibiotics stipulating that aluminiun content could be dangerous for some patients, but yet we get no warning from dr’s about vaccines?
Please explain, why childhood antacids, warn that children with kidney problems are better off without the medication due to the aluminiun levels? This is the classic arguement pro vaccine people use, so I investigated it my self and guess what I found? It is contraindicated in children with kidney problems….
Please explain why I had to stumble along this fact, after months of trusting the dr’s and I gave it to my son who we are still doing test on his kidneys and the dr’s did not warn me!!! Its not because his pediatrician does not care, because she is wonderful, its because she has no time to research it herself
Oh, it is imperitive to consider that dr’s around the world are taught the exact same thing, they are only given a couple of hours of insight into the subject at univeristy, and if they want to understand this complex issue they need to spend hundreds and hundreds of hours of their own time to investigate it. ALSO, they are not taught about the evidence that PROVES vaccines kill and hurt our children..
AND Jessica, I pray for you, as you STILL vaccinated your child regardless of how critically ill he was. That is very very very very very very very very sad and scary. I do worry that the dr’s didnt warn you, I serioulsy do…I am glad he is ok though!!! Jessica, look at the manufac turing insert, and read it with a fine tooth comb, look at all the vaccine inserts and get back to me. I do worry for your child. I will help you understand the jargon if you find it difficult ok…
I will vaccinate my son tomorrow, if I knew they were safe and effective. Unfortunately, the most educated among us, know they are not. It is called CONFIDENCE in ones brains in understanding all the sceintific jargon…..
Naj
July 14, 2009 at 8:19 am
Hello Naj,
I would suggest those are the sections of the community with the lowest vaccination rates in part because they have gone out and done a little research. I would like to emphasise the word “little” here, enough to be dangerous. There’s a LOT of misinformation and outright lies out there being pushed by the likes of Meryl Dorey, people who have been corrected and had the evidence shoved in their face multiple times yet still spout the same inane lines day after day.
They are also the segment of society most likely to have spare cash for things like day spa’s, yoga, and other alternative treatment which usually push (either subtly or blatantly) an anti-conventional-medicine message, which vaccines just happen to be part of. Just because you have confidence to critique information does not make your critiques any more accurate.
The rates of autism and eczema being high are quite strange, but then again it is not yet known what is the cause. All we know are numerous things that are not the cause due to autism rates still increasing despite the rates of these other things going down – such as vaccinations (oh snap).
Auto immune diseases have many different causes depending on the type it is. Diabetes and asthma is high due to a combination of genetics, our bad diets and lack of exercise.
All these things I would have thought you’d know if you were of the more educated and confident to critique section of the community as you so claim. Then again, I wouldn’t expect such bad English either and a basic understanding of spelling.
As to your strawman story about a child being different directly after receiving a vaccine, please tell me the last time you saw a child happy after being stabbed by a sharp object?
The only cases where there’s a direct reaction is when the person has an adverse reaction to the vaccine. People have adverse reactions to a lot of things from medicines to pollen to peanuts. Both natural and un-natural. There has yet to be a documented and confirmed case where a child has been brought in to a doctor’s office happy and fine, and left with autism as people like yourself and the AVN like to claim. It’s a false story, a blatant lie that is designed to scare people.
Bailey and Polling did not win any such court case. Hannah Poling was found to have a mitochondrial disorder (i.e., NOT autism), and Bailey Banks was found to have acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM) (i.e., NOT autism). Again, your ability to critique evidence is looking worse and worse the more you go on. In fact, you’ve embarrassed yourself enough I think so as a courtesy to you I think I might leave myself here.
If you wish to actually get informed I would highly suggest actually doing some research in to the claims you’ve seen made by Jenny McCarthy and the AVN. Look up the findings for yourself rather than just trusting what they say.
Bastard Sheep
July 15, 2009 at 4:51 am
Thank you sooooooooo much Bastard Sheep for your response. I am open and willing to learn!
First of all, we had the highest vaccination rates on record last year… So where are you getting your facts that vaccination rates are down?.. The US have 98% vaccination rates! Please explain?
Secondly, Are you telling me that we have not spent hundreds and hundreds of hours researching? As you say that they still don’t know what the answers to my question are. That’s the whole point of it. WE do not know and we should not easily dismiss the fact that along with our vaccine schedule tripling, we have also seen a rise in all these illness. Coincidence it may be, however, we do not know that yet.
Thank you for pointing out my poor English and spelling. You would be proud to know that I could hardly read or write properly until I was 18 years old. This was partly due to the fact that I grew up with a non english speaking family who did not pick up on my struggles because I was always the brightest in maths. Now, I only have 3 subjects left in my science degree. I also have a credit/distinction average. You are smart, intelligence does not= good spelling. Please feel free to edit my work. I am confident enough to admit my weakness. Thus, I am not embarrased. In fact I am proud that I have come this far, all by myself!!!! Furthermore, you would be proud to know that I grew up in a poor family and have worked my way to where am today. I made those comments, because I find it interesting that our most educated don’t vaccinate.
You would be interested to know that my paediatrician admitted to me that most her colleagues do not vaccinate. I found it difficult to understand why not one dr or nurse could tell me the chemical composition of the vaccines. That’s what prompted me to investigate. You would be interested to know that my sons surgeon admitted that they don’t spend more than a couple of lecture’s on the subject at uni. So when dr’s say what they say, where are they learning that information? IT seems as though they all give the exact same response which seems like brainwashing to me too.
You stipulate that Hannah Polling has Mitochondrial disorder, NOT autism. You asked me to get my facts straight. Well here is the story bastard sheep, children with Mitochondrial disorder can develop autistic like symptoms or full blown autism, which is indeed the case of Hannah Poling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where did you get those facts? I ask with respect as I am ALWAYS open to learn more.
You also, argue that Bailey had ADEM and PDD. First of all, Bailey proved that the brain swelling he encountered did indeed lead to his PDD. Thus, Autism is a form of PDD.
I find it interesting that the manufacturing insert stipulate that eczema, asthma, ear infections etc are a side effect. Especially because at least 4 out of 12 children in my mothers group have eczema.
I agree 100% that I need to do my own research. That is true. That’s why I am still reading and reading. It will take a very long time to read all the scientific data out there. So please feel free to post what you have come across as I will read everything.
Seeing that we do not know the reasons these illnesses are on the rise. We should not dismiss the fact that this rise coincided with our vaccine schedule tripling…
I saw a documentary where a memeber of the CDC admit in a court case ” that we cannot reject or accpet that vaccines cause autism”. I can’t remember the name, but I am happy to post it once I watch it again. It is imperitive that we stop all this nonsense and start working together for safer vaccines. As you even admitted it, the court case was won over those serious illness these children endured at the cost of these vaccines.
It is imperitive to understand that our children are these poor little soldiers in a war aimed to eradicate these diseases and consequently are casualities of this war!!!!.. This idea of sacfricing a few for the common good is like communism and therefore outrageous seeing that it is considered accpetable in countries such as Australia and the US…
I too encourage you to do more research and feel free to pass it onto me too.
LETS MAKE VACCINES SAFE FOR ALLLLLLLLLL CHILDREN!!!!…..
Naj
July 15, 2009 at 8:11 am
Hi Naj, just a few quick points – I can address some more of your concerns at a time when I am not so busy. I am the author of this post, so let me offer you some information that might be of assistance. Vaccination rates on average, are not down, however there are pockets where rates are as low as 66%, such as on the North Coast of NSW. As a science student you would understand that statistics are often expressed as an average and this most likely accounts for the apparent high average levels. When rates drop below the level where herd immunity is attained then the stage is set for outbreaks – as has happened in NSW with whooping cough.
Good for you!
Did your pediatrician tell you why she and her colleagues do not vaccinate?
I
Clinicians and nurses do not design or develop vaccines – this may explain why they do not know the precise composition. I am a research scientist, but since vaccination is not my area of speciality, I can not tell you off the top of my head either. However, I can find out; such information is not secret. Don’t forget that clinicians and nurses are there to administer/prescribe drugs, many of which they would not be able to tell you the precise composition. They are trained to know how they work and what they can treat.
Vaccines go through a very long development process, by basic scientists, before they are put to phase I, II, III and IV etc trials and eventually passed onto pharmaceutical companies, who manufacture and market them. The design and testing process is thorough and extensive, with many steps requiring peer review and publishing along the way. Like all science, this is not a menial process.
I also have eczema, have had it all my life. But it is common for kids to have it, then “grow out if it”. Unfortunately, I didn’t – in my case it is genetic – but you may find that the 30% of kids in your mother’s group also do. The reasons for eczema are multi-factorial and cannot generally be attributed to one thing.,
No, we should not dismiss this correlation, however it is important to remember that correlation does not equal causation. The latter needs to be demonstrated by controlled scientific studies. You should remember that in the case of autism, for example, the diagnosis has improved, which can account for new cases. Many years ago, kids with autism may have been categorised as “slow” rather than autistic. With respect to autism, studies on the effects of vaccine additives such as thimerosol, have to date, shown no increased incidence of autism.
Also, it is imperative to remember that a century ago, children and adults died from diseases that are now preventable, thanks to advances in science and medicine. You no doubt know, that it is also very important to critically analyse the evidence provided to you; for example you mention a CDC documentary and provide this as evidence for a possible link between vaccines and autism . It is important to consider several things – do you know if this comes from a published, peer reviewed study? Do you know if the person who said this has a conflict of interest? Has this research been repeated in other studies, by other labs? All these are things important to consider when deciding whether research is valid and relevant.
Thanks for your comments. Please keep an eye on this post for more responses to your questions.
Cheers,
Rachael
scepdoll
July 15, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Thank you Rachael. You actually seem nice.
Last time I checked the the North Coast had 79% vaccination rate. Plus it is important to note, that the South West have the highest vaccination rate, but yet have the most amount of people suffering whooping cough. Everyone I know that has caught it this year have been vacccinated and have vaccinated their children. This scares me. I assume that the strain is changing all the time and the avccine is not able to keep up with it.
My peadiatrician told me its because they don’t feel the need to.
Also, I saw the court case. It was a verbal statement from a member of the CDC. It was not something I read, it was a statemnt I heard and saw her say. Watch Vaccine Nation and you can see it too. I would love to hear your feedback on that too.
I understand and agree with that we need to keep diseases at bay. However, In the Myths and reality hand out from the government they admit that death rates had declined before the introduction of vaccines, however they do stipulate that we needed to still bring down the disease rates. Thus, we have inoucltaed our nation knowing hardly anyone dies from these diseases anymore. The sad thing too is that evryone believes the death rates had declined due to vaccines, but yet the goverment ADMIT that this is not the case either.
Any child under 6 months of age will be at serious risk form any of the vaccine preventable diseases. However, they are also at risk from everything else too. But what do we do about the large amounts of children suffering as a result of the vaccines? Do we continue to ignore it because we believe that they are saving us? Shouldn’t we work towards making them safer for everyone?
I don’t understand how we can inject so many poison’s into our children and ignore that some simply cannot cope with it? People have a reacton to things all the time. So it is not unreasonable or irrational when these parents say their child has suffered as a result of the vaccine.
With ezcema, I don’t undertsnad why it is so prevelant when it was not years ago? Why is it that the manufcaturing insert admits this, but yet the parents are not told about it?
Also, I do not condem the dr’s or nurses. They are doing what they believe to be the right thing. However, when they force you to do something that they know reltaively little about, I get upset. AND when they tell me I am negligent when I have obviously done my homework and am simply trying to protect my son, it infuriates me. I have no problem in them trying to heavily influence me, I have a problem when they do this by using scare tactic that are simply not true. I also get infuriated because they put all this pressure on me when they have simply not done their research Thats is just not fair. I would respect anyone who has done their homework and then chooses to vaccinate, but please do not make me do so when you have not read the evidence for the contrary either!!!!!
I understand correlation does not mean causality. The issue is that no anti vax person will ever say its just because of the vaccines. It is just one piece of the puzzle. We just need to make them safer!!!!
Why do we need to argue and argue and argue? It is not productive. We should just accept that the vaccines are not safe for all children and therefore we need to make them safe.
Naj
July 16, 2009 at 12:57 am
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